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Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: OutsourceAccounting 01 September, 2015 13:47

This is going to happen in November, for three months, they will be placed in front of Scott's Meats, so there won't be access to the lower end of RR from the South Circular; it may became permanent if Sustrans and Quietways get their way.
Does anyone know of any other areas that been affect by this initiative? This is supposed to be route 7 so there must be at least another 6...

Dalila

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 01 September, 2015 13:58

What sort of bollards do you mean? There is already a pedestrian crossing outside Scotts Meats - how will this be affected? Couldn't find anything online about this - do you have a link to any plans etc?

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: parkhall5 01 September, 2015 16:39

Flyers, as attached, were being given out by the shops on Rosendale Road at the weekend.
It seems like a complete nonsense to reduce traffic on a big, wide road and push the traffic onto smaller roads as they try to rat run to avoid congestion on Croxted and the closure on Rosendale. I have emailed an objection.

Attachments: rosendale road closure.jpg (69.7KB)  
Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: vialli 02 September, 2015 08:00

looks like WDF is a bit behind the curve: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5,1451849,page=1

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 02 September, 2015 08:06

vialli Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> looks like WDF is a bit behind the curve:
> http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?5
> ,1451849,page=1

Not at all - the leaflets were only handed out on Rosendale Road last weekend; if you read through the entire EDF post, you'll see that Rosendale Road was only mentioned on there in July and there was a question whether RR residents had been consulted, which they hadn't been. Can't really be accused of being behind the curve if you don't the curve exists...

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: vialli 02 September, 2015 10:39

Lady Norwood - wrong choice of words on my part as it was written in haste, but the W Dulwich community needs to understand the implications of the consultation over these proposals. If, as suggested above, the intention is to block Rosendale Road with a view to forcing the traffic that currently uses that road to move across to Croxted and S Croxted Road our community will be profoundly changed for the worse. I suspect that the residents of the roads proposed to be adversely effected will have something to say about it. Do you know if residents on local roads other than Rosendale are to be "consulted"?

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 02 September, 2015 10:51

Totally agree - I doubt very much that residents on CR and SCR will be consulted, we're usually left out of the loop! The wording on the flyer is so contradictory - it says its aim is to divert traffic onto Croxted Road which is already very busy... Also, how would emergency services get through?

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 02 September, 2015 10:58

Have just left a voicemail for Ruth Chiat and tweeted her too asking for SCR and CR residents to be included in this process as we are the ones being affected!

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: pollygo 02 September, 2015 13:06

I live on Elmworth Grove and the only access to this estate is from Rosendale Rd, if this proposal goes ahead we would find access from the south blocked which would add to the existing congestion on the surrounding roads from Elmworth Grove residents. I have emailed my opposition to Ruth and will attend one of the consultations... Good work WD forum though, I wouldn't have found out about this otherwise !

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: vialli 03 September, 2015 12:06

The mystery around this deepens and it appears that there has been no public consultation about the temporary closure of Rosendale Road. I have today sent the following message to Ruth Chiat of Sustrans ruth.chiat@sustrans.org.uk

Dear Ruth,

Through the grapevine, and with no consultation from your
organisation, I have heard that you are effectively proceeding with a
temporary closure of Rosendale Road, for a period of three months from
November 2015. I do not know how you have achieved this by failing
even to notify or consult with local residents, but if true this is
completely undemocratic and Orwellian in approach.

My family and I live at the address shown below in Park Hall Road, and
we rely upon Rosendale Road for travel to and from work by car on a
daily basis. Your scheme will have untold damage to traffic patterns
in the local area and in my opinion this is completely unacceptable.

Please will you advise by return what consultations or meetings have
taken place or are planned to take place, and please will you give me
your assurances that all of the residents of Park Hall Road will be
notified of this and consulted.

For the record I must state that I consider your organisation's
approach to this matter to be shameful. I will also be taking this up
with my MP.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 03 September, 2015 12:32

Well done vialli - I might pinch the wording if you don't mind (tweaked of course)?

I've just found this on the Norwood Action Group - it is unacceptable that local residents have not been consulted!

http://us8.campaign-archive1.com/?u=2768895f4635df64a0f015c1e&id=15ec060d71

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 03 September, 2015 12:52

I've sent this to Ruth Chiat and also to Helen Hayes, our new MP, ruth.chiat@sustrans.org.uk and helen.hayes.mp@parliament.uk

Dear Ms Chiat,

Through the grapevine, and with no consultation from your or, indeed, any other organisation, it has come to my attention that Sustrans is effectively proceeding with a temporary closure of Rosendale Road, SE21 for a period of three months from November 2015.

It is quite beyond comprehension how Sustrans has achieved this extraordinary feat without even the courtesy of notifying local residents, let alone engaging and consulting with the community. I consider it to be completely undemocratic and extremely heavy handed and, indeed, unacceptable.

I live with my family on South Croxted Road and the impact on our already over-crowded road, the roads surrounding it, together with the increase of traffic will be unbearable and downright dangerous. I think Sustrans’ actions are putting the community at risk; given that there is a large housing estate directly opposite the proposed siting of the bollards how will emergency vehicles access the estate, the only other vehicular access being a small side road on Park Hall Road? In addition, there is a number of primary and secondary schools in the area and the impact of them will be untenable.

Rosendale Road is a very wide road (much wider than South Croxted and Croxted Roads) with ample room for parking on both sides, vehicles and cyclists to pass safely. I understand that Alleyn Road is a recommended cycle route, so I do not see the need to effectively close down an almost parallel road.

Please advise without delay, what consultations or meetings have already taken place and what plans you have in place for the proper consultation with the local community in advance of this proposed closure. All residents on Croxted Road and South Croxted Road should be consulted as they will be impacted greatly by these draconian measures.

I am copying this correspondence to my local MP as I consider Sustrans to have acted in a very under-handed way with no real consideration for the local community but, rather, to further its own agenda.

Yours,

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: parkhall5 03 September, 2015 13:18

This morning I have received this from local councillor Anna Birley - common sense in action?!

From: Birley,Anna Cllr <ABirley@lambeth.gov.uk>
To: Birley,Anna Cllr <ABirley@lambeth.gov.uk>
CC: HAYES, Helen <helen.hayes.mp@parliament.uk>, Deckers-Dowber,Max Cllr <MDeckersDowber@lambeth.gov.uk>, Cowell,Fred Cllr <FCowell@lambeth.gov.uk>


Dear all,

Apologies for the group email – I wanted to make sure no one was left off communications.

For context, for those who emailed later than my last update went out –

· Sustrans proposed a temporary road closure on Rosendale Road and Tulsemere Road as part of the cycle quietway from Gipsy Hill to Elephant and Castle

· They sent information to some local businesses last week. This was also the first time that we as councillors were notified of the proposals.

· We have since been emailing and discussing this with many of you, and have talked to Sustrans, Helen Hayes MP, Cllr Jenny Brathwaite, the responsible cabinet member, Cllr Lib Peck, the council Leader, and Lambeth officers

Update -

I met with Ruth from Sustrans this morning and expressed our dissatisfaction with their process – the lack of communication and the way they sprang an albeit temporary road closure on residents and businesses. I expressed our support for slowing traffic and making Rosendale Road less congested and safer for cyclists but that this clearly wasn't the way to achieve that.

I asked that the proposal be scrapped and that we use the upcoming meetings instead to design something together – have the traffic engineers in the room with residents and businesses so that we local people can decide on changes to their own neighbourhood.

Ruth acknowledged that they have not gone about quietways on Rosendale Road well and apologised. She took my feedback to TfL and her colleagues and they have agreed that we should proceed with my suggestion – we will start again from scratch with a blank map and residents will be able to design any changes for themselves.

Next steps -
The meeting dates have changed a bit from the previous email I sent, and will be as follows –

· 22 Sept at 5-7.30 at Aspire on Parkhall – a discussion of current traffic on Rosendale and neighbouring roads. Traffic engineers will share the data they have collected and will listen to any local issues around safety, speeding, rat running and congestion.

· 26 Sept at 10.30-2.30 at Tea West and 8 Oct at 5-7.30 at Aspire – co-design, starting with a blank local map and exploring options suggested by residents and businesses. Again, traffic engineers will be on hand to share experiences of schemes elsewhere and support residents. I suggested this should happen twice so that if people can't attend one session they can come to the other.

· 17 Oct at 10.30-2.30 at Tea West – engineers will have drawn up ideas from the previous sessions into options and residents and businesses can choose. We can discuss next steps on the trial and what should be measured so as to properly evaluate impact.

I hope that by starting with a blank slate we can have a really useful and constructive process going forward, with genuine engagement and real opportunity to decide on a local level how this investment from Transport for London can best be spent. Max, Fred and I will continue to work hard on making sure as many people are informed and included at every stage and we are very happy to meet with any of you, or arrange for Ruth or one of her colleagues to come to visit your street.

We’ll be scrutinising the process very closely so please let us know if you have any further concerns before, during or after the workshops. I hope as many of you as possible will be able to come along and take part – it’s important that we make sure as many local voices contribute as we can.

You should all receive a letter soon from Sustrans acknowledging that their approach to date has been poor and setting out how it will improve from now on. It will contain more detail on the workshops.

Best wishes,

Anna
Disclaimers apply for full details see http://www.lambeth.gov.uk/EmailDisclaimer.htm

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 03 September, 2015 15:41

I've just emailed this... I'd love to know who is in Anna Birley's inner sanctum to receive this as she is so keen "to make sure no one was left off communications"!!

I would respectfully ask that all residents of Croxted and South Croxted Roads and their respective councillors are consulted and kept informed of all developments as we are the ones who will be directly, adversely affected by these proposed installations.

I intend to be present at all the meetings and will urge my neighbours and members of the South Croxted Residents’ Association to do the same.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: parkhall5 03 September, 2015 17:16

I am not an inner sanctum member, LadyNorwood. Not sure if that is a good or bad thing!? I received it via one of the local Resident's Associations - I think her email was in reply to all the people who emailed her directly when they heard about the stupid bollard idea.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 03 September, 2015 17:29

parkhall5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am not an inner sanctum member, LadyNorwood. Not
> sure if that is a good or bad thing!? I received
> it via one of the local Resident's Associations -
> I think her email was in reply to all the people
> who emailed her directly when they heard about the
> stupid bollard idea.

Sorry, I meant it as a "I wonder what it takes to become a member of her hallowed group", didn't mean it personally, I've never even heard of Anna burley but then she's not our councillor. Hopefully going forward we can form a cohesive front to block these ridiculous proposals! Apologies again if i offended...

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: parkhall5 03 September, 2015 21:45

Gosh, not offended at all! I too am a bit suspicious about exactly what's gone on here. Agree we need to stand together on all this nonsense.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: vialli 04 September, 2015 07:57

The more I think about this, the wider the consultation should be, to be anything other than lipservice. There needs to be a forum for considered discussion, not just a pop-in to Tea West (nothing personal).

Lets first consider traffic travelling east on the S Circular from Tulse Hill but heading towards Gipsy Hill / Crystal Palace and beyond. The options are:
1. Right turn into Dalmore Rd and then through to Rosendale and beyond.
2. No right turn on Rosendale Road
3. No right turn on Croxted Road
4. Right turn into Alleyn park and beyond.

If Rosendale Road is blocked, the first and only viable right turn becomes Alleyn Park. This is the dangerous junction where a female cyclist was tragically killed last year. Alleyn Park and then Alleyn Road can therefore expect to pick up most or all of this displaced traffic. Has this been considered and will the residents of these roads also be officially notified and consulted?

For traffic travelling west on the S Circular from Lordship Lane, the only viable left hand turn leading to Crystal Palace / Gipsy Hill becomes Alleyn Park.

For traffic travelling south from Herne Hill / Brockwell Park, the closure of Rosendale Road means the only option is Croxted Road and then South Croxted Road, or Croxted Rd/ S Circular east / Alleyn Park.

For traffic travelling north from Crystal Palace / Gipsy Hill, the only viable options become S Croxted / Croxted / Alleyn Park.

Bearing in mind the above, in my view the residents of all of these roads must be made aware of the proposals and consulted:

Rosendale Rd
Dalmore Road
Park Hall Road
Clive Road
Alleyn Park
Alleyn Road
Croxted Road
South Croxted Road
Acacia Grove
The estate bounded by Rosendale Road and Croxted Road
The Peabody Estate
Robson Road

If I have missed any roads out please forgive me.

I will raise this with our local councillors and our MP, but it would be interesting to see others thoughts. It does of course remain quite staggering to think that Sustrans should be so close to achieving it's own agenda without the local residents being made aware. Whoever distributed the leaflets last Saturday deserves our thanks.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2015 09:32 by vialli.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: Number37 04 September, 2015 10:00

If I could just mention the proposed 315 bus extension that may residents have already submitted responses to.
You may already be aware
See here https://consultations.tfl.gov.uk/buses/route-315
It closed yesterday alas but they may consider late communications
Obviously more load on the same roads.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: Lubylu 04 September, 2015 10:58

We are on Idmiston Road (close to Rosendale Road end) and if I understand the proposal it would have a massive impact on us. The road is already a nightmare with cars parked on either side making it a single traffic road only (unlike Rosendale which is of course wide enough to cope with the traffic on both sides). Trying to cross the road in the morning for the school run with small children is not much fun and dangerous already without extra traffic. We shall be making our thoughts known and come along to the meetings. Thanks
BTW - does anyone know if these people who want to make these changes are actually going to try and contact the local community by post or some other means? There must be an awful lot of people out there who have no idea.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/09/2015 11:01 by Lubylu.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: Dulwichdamsel 04 September, 2015 21:18

LadyNorwood I have sent you a PM

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: vialli 07 September, 2015 12:58

I have seen this e-mail sent by the Thurlow Park councillors. Can I just ask whether anybody has actually been contacted by Sustran, the promoters of this scheme? This all looks like wheels within wheels:


From: Anna, Fred and Max, your local councillors [mailto:abirley=lambeth.gov.uk@mail96.atl91.mcsv.net] On Behalf Of Anna, Fred and Max, your local councillors
Sent: 04 September 2015 17:57
To: Philip
Subject: Quietways update #2 - new workshop dates



Dear all,

Sorry for yet another email in a short time!

Sustrans have had to change the dates of the workshop as they wanted to make sure they have a big enough venue - given the number of you who got in touch I anticipate a full house! Please make sure you have the correct dates in your diaries.


Workshop 1 (Information Gathering Drop In) - Wednesday 30th September 5.00pm - 8.00pm
Workshop 2 (Co-design Workshop) - Saturday 10th October 10.30am – 1.00pm
Workshop 3 (Co-design Workshop) - Wednesday 14th October 5.00pm – 7.30pm
Workshop 4 (Feedback Concept Showcase) - Saturday 24th October – 10.30am – 2.30pm

All the events will be held at All Saints Church Lovelace Rd, London SE21 8JY

For more information on the workshops, please click here.

I hope lots of you can still come – I’ll be looking to organise an additional session for businesses outside of peak business hours so that as many as possible from the parade of shops can contribute too.

Best wishes,

Anna

My point is that the impact of closing Rosendale Road to through traffic, at a point outside the shops at the junction of Rosendale & Idmiston Roads would have a very widespread effect and people should be properly notified and be given the opportunity to voice their concerns. If Sustrans is failing to notify people about their proposals, and the meetings that they are arranging, surely we should be able to rely on Lambeth Council to step in and ensure widespread publicity for these proposals.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: frustratedmother 09 September, 2015 16:09

I emailed Anna Birley about this in July , ( and Max Patterson), no reply- despite a reminder 2 days ago. This is such a contrast to the behaviour of the Councillors Whelan who always came back to any query quickly. I am very disappointed.Southwark residents have been consulted about this a lot more than Lambeth ones.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: vialli 10 September, 2015 08:08

I received the attached letter yesterday from Ruth Chiat of Sustrans and Richard Ambler of Lambeth Council.

My concerns at this stage are threefold.

Firstly, a case for "improvements in the Rosendale Road area" has not been made. Why are improvements needed? Is there any evidence to support the call to consider improvements?

Secondly, there seems to be a division on how the residents of Lambeth and Southwark are being consulted. The possible closure of Rosendale Road would significantly increase traffic on Alleyn Park (this would become the first right turn from the S Circular for traffic heading east from Tulse Hill, and the residents are in Southwark) and Croxted Road / South Croxted Road where the eastern side of each of these roads are in Southwark. Are the Southwark residents being consulted on the Rosendale Rd proposals?

Thirdly,the authors of the letter write that "We're starting from a clean slate...." I doubt very much that this is the case. I understand that the authors had in place arrangements to close Rosendale Road for a three month trial period from November 2015 and only withdrew these plans and agreed to "consult" when very late in the day the plans became public knowledge and the Thurlow Park Ward councillors forced them to beat a retreat. Until that point they had not considered that consultation with us was necessary, and that they simply knew best. If these facts are correct I can only conclude that Ruth Chiat and Richard Ambler cannot be approaching this project with open minds and that they are there to advance their own pre-determined agenda.

However, I am keen to see that the voices of all of those who will be effected by these proposals are heard, whatever they may say.

Attachments: 20150910084041.pdf (400.8KB)  
Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 10 September, 2015 08:23

Absolutely vialli and thank you for copying us in on the letter. I urge everyone to email rosendalefeedback@sustrans.org.uk so that they can be kept in the loop on the consultation process. I have emailed, phoned and tweeted Ruth Chiat but she has, so far, failed to acknowledge or respond. I am concerned that Quietways and Sustrans are pushing their own agenda with no thought or respect for the local communities. I intend to go to all the meetings and challenge these proposals.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: LadyNorwood 10 September, 2015 12:43

Alleyn Park is route 23 on the cycle network which makes the Rosendale proposal even more pointless....

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: grifgrof57 10 September, 2015 19:52

What a DAFT idea! I've only just heard about all this and to be honest, don't understand it at all! I live on Rosendale and it's a bit busy at times, but so are all the other roads in the area and so I think its entirely fair that traffic is shared out amongst us - why should Rosendale be different? Can anyone tell me what the actual point of the plan is?

Please could someone also tell me who Quietways and Sustrans are?

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: parkhall5 11 September, 2015 07:26

There are temporary traffic lights on the Rosendale road/Thurlow Park Road junction today. Croxted, Rosendale and surrounding streets are badly congested. If Lambeth/Sustrans need an example of what a daft idea this is, maybe they should have a look at what is happening to local traffic today. And vehicles can still pass along Rosendale Road. It would, surely, be much much worse with bollards in place.

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: hoodsi 21 September, 2015 12:21

This is totally crazy. Hello!! we live in London not some quiet village in the country. I live on Rosendale Road, cycle the length of Rosendale Road daily to get to work and I do own a car so drive down Rosendale Road. We need good wider roads to manage the traffic safely not close them to traffic. There is already a lovely wide pavement in front of the shops on Rosendale Road why do we need to close it off? Croxted Road is already a nightmare in the mornings and this will have a big impact on bus routes - no 3 particularly but also the 322.
I really hope there is enough opposition to this to stop it

Re: Proposed bollards on Rosendale Road
Posted by: Dulwichdamsel 24 September, 2015 20:27

I agree this is totally crazy, but don't just expect the idea to go away
It is vital that all affected residents of Dulwich & Norwood go along to the first public consultation meeting. Any proposal affecting Rosendale road will cause spreading ripples of traffic throughout the surrounding roads.
Don't just assume that your friends & neighbours will go to object & take an interest in the proposal

The meeting is next Wednesday (30th Sept) between 5pm-8pm at All Saints Church, Lovelace Rd, SE21 8JY, yes it's on the way home from work & you'll be tired & hungry.... But make the effort & have your say

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